How to interview Education CS Magoha

HOST: Good morning, Bwana CS Jacob Mogoa, and many thanks for finding time to come to our TV studios to speak on matters education. It is now your third month at Jogoo House. How are things?

MAGOHA: First of all, my name is Professor George Albert Omore Magoha, not Jacob Mogoa. I think you are confusing me with a broadcaster at KBC radio many years ago. Second, what things are you asking me about at Jogoo House? President Uhuru Kenyatta appointed me Cabinet Secretary for Education, not for Things.

HOST: Ehe, he, sorry for the mix-up, Prof. And of course you are in charge of Education, not things. What can you tell us about the new Competency Based Curriculum?

MAGOHA: I can’t tell you everything about the CBC. What exactly do you want to know? Information about the new curriculum is everywhere out there. There are studies, policy, design and implementation reports and many other documents. You might need to peruse some of them and then raise with me any specific questions you might have.

HOST: Yes, many people have raised a lot of questions about the CBC…

MAGOHA: Excuse me, which many people? Whom did you speak to? When? Where? A lot of questions means how many? 50, 100? What are those?

HOST: Err…many questions, really. Let’s for example start with concerns by Knut that the rollout was done in haste without adequate preparation, you know, stakeholder participation, stuff like that, I mean, do you see the new curriculum succeeding with all these questions people are asking all over the place, Prof?

MAGOHA: Which means you have no questions about the content of the curriculum? Well, if you or the many people you are talking about are only interested in the process, it has been a long one. The train has already left the station and there is no going back. Knut has been part of this process together with many others: curriculum experts, parents’ representatives, teachers, employers, religious organisations…which people are you saying were not involved? Knut is entitled to its views on CBC but we are going ahead. What can they do?

HOST: What if they down their tools, what will you do?

MAGOHA: Are you daring me on their behalf? Did they send you?

HOST: Okay. There are not enough teachers in the country to implement CBC. What are you doing about that?

MAGOHA: Who told you teachers are not enough? What is your evidence?

HOST: But Prof it is all over in the newspapers? The country needs more teachers.

MAGOHA: A lot of things are written in the newspapers. Give me the figures. We need more teachers all the time. That does not mean we stop implementing the CBC.

HOST: Some people say as a surgeon you belong in the theatre not at Jogoo House, what is your take?

MAGOHA: Which people are you talking about? I have only been given a ministry to run. Mwalimu Nyerere was one of the best presidents Africa has ever had. He was a teacher. Thomas Sankara turned around Burkina Faso in just four years. He was a soldier, a captain in the army. Moi ruled Kenya for 24 years with only primary school education. George Weah is the president of Liberia. He is a footballer.

HOST: Which means?

MAGOHA: Which means you have little understanding of how the real world works.

HOST: One of the biggest problems facing education in Kenya is teenage pregnancy, you know schoolgirls make love and get a ball. What is your take?

MAGOHA: Schoolgirls don’t make love. Or get a ball. What ball? No one below the age of consent makes love. It is called defilement. Journalists need to understand this. The ministry has guidelines. TSC has guidelines as well. Do you have any questions about those guidelines? Defilement is a crime, so it is an issue for the justice system, the police, the courts. But it is also a society issue, how children are brought up. It is not simply a Ministry of Education issue.

HOST: Let’s talk about universities. Private universities might close down because they cannot have new students as nearly all of the eligible ones join public universities. What is the way forward?

MAGOHA: Way forward to where? Private universities were set up to meet a need. If that need no longer exists, the owners should find other things to do with their money, staff and buildings. Or do you think we must have private universities whether they are needed or not?

HOST: You recently said only about 10 per cent of PhDs are genuine. What did you mean?

MAGOHA: I did not say that. Check your facts. I said only about 10 per cent of PhD certificates in Kenya are worth the paper they are written on. Universities have lost their rigour in producing the highest academic qualification. Today, it is like cooking githeri. Mix maize and beans, pour water, put on fire, go away and come back after a while. You find cooked githeri if you are lucky, or the whole thing is burnt black.

HOST: So, where do we go from here?

MAGOHA: You and me are not going anywhere together from here. You remain here doing your journalism, which I can see you are very good at, while I return to Jogoo House to serve Kenyans.

HOST: Thank you very much, Prof, for the compliment! I am flattered. What is your parting shot?

MAGOHA: I have none.

HOST: I mean, anything generally about education?

MAGOHA: There is nothing that can be said generally about education.

HOST: Thank you very much sir. And on that note, viewers, we come to the end of our interview. Thank you so much for watching.